Curse

BanaXX · May 24, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Hello fellow monks,

I have been playing both these builds and they are both certainly effective. But i have trouble seeing which ever one of them is better. They both keep my party alive pretty well without trouble. But just out of curiosity i would like to find out which build is more effective/recommended in pve.

Thank you,
BanaXX

Lurid · May 24, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Honestly, i'm curious what the general consensus here is aswell. Though I doubt it will be a very deffinate one, if nothing else opinion at most. Personally I prefer a straight healer build, with the boon flavor of this I over heal too much. As far as prot goes, from what i've played of boon prot it was remarkably effective. Although as of now i'm more fond of just an inspiration spiked healer, not that prot isn't good which it obviously is. I suppose its just my playstyle and a lack of experience with boon prot that makes me prefer my current build....

zeno · May 24, 2006, 01:26 AM // 01:26

I don't play monks, but I've almost never seen a boonprot in pve in prophecies. There must be a reason this is the case....

Katari · May 24, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeno

I don't play monks, but I've almost never seen a boonprot in pve in prophecies. There must be a reason this is the case....

I've seen more players with sundering bows than vamp bows, but that dosen't mean sundering is any good.

Boon Prot works nicely in many areas, especialy areas that are condition heavy. However, I wouldn't run a boon/prot as the only monk on a PvE team. Preferably, I'd pair up with a healer monk who uses Heal Party (and not the useless breeze-spaming sort).

bRA1N-b0X · May 24, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

I know I'm still relatively new (a noob, they say), but I've mostly been playing my monk and focusing on her improvements and advancement -- reading all the articles I can find, going over the minutae. Anyway, I've personally found you can get away with a fair combination, balancing a little of each. I don't use Boon, just because I feel it is a waste of energy and over-healing. You can spam cheap heals with proper energy management and cheap protections which can also add a bonus heal along with it. I've added minor bonding to add to energy intake. But if you want to go purely one way or the other, I have a personal preference to Protection over Healing. There's just so many more options in damage prevention, condition and hex removal, etc., along with bonus healing, adding in a few basic healing skills. The job gets done, without too much pain involved. It just feel redundant to be purely a healer, for some reason I cannot properly convey at the moment.

Given time, I don't think my opinion will change. I just think I'll have better reasons and experience on my side to back me up.

Just my two cents!

Sofia Sofia Sofia · May 24, 2006, 03:51 AM // 03:51

I'm pretty noob to monks, so I was wondering if anyone could throw up PvE specific builds for Boon Prot and regular healing?

I'm not even going to ask for PvP builds cause those are much more debatable LOL

Lurid · May 24, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Depends on what your forte is. Personally I use:

Divine Favor - 12 + 1
Protection Prayers - 8 + 1 + 1
Blood Magic - 10

1. Offering of Blood
2. Reversal of Fortune
3. Guardian
4. Protective Spirit
5. Divine Boon
6. Holy Veil
7. Mend Ailment
8. Rebirth

Healing Prayers - 12 + 1 + 3
Divine Favor - 8 + 1
Inspiration Magic - 10

1. Word of Healing
2. Orison of Healing
3. Dwayna's Kiss
4. Healing Touch
5. Energy Tap or Condition Removal
6. Inspired Hex
7. Drain Enchantment
8. Rebirth

My Prot build has screwy attributes, because I don't have a divine head piece or a superior divine rune. Thats in coming though, as soon as I get to the Kurzick areas. I'm not the best Monk, nor do I claim to be. Though those may prove useful, as they have served me well. Well, atleast the non-boon healer has, ^_^

bRA1N-b0X · May 24, 2006, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Of course, the first is a Mo/N and the second is a Mo/Me? You run two seperate monks? We should have a monk-appreciation thread...nah.

It's funny how everyone thinks playing a monk is boring or whatever, but I'd like to see anyone get far without a good monk. W/Mo's do well, but even they have limits without back up. In party situations especially. I digress...

My other thread has what I usually use, but here goes... Keep in mind this is a Mo/W.

With various runes and such, my att's are pretty even between Healing, Protection, and Divine Favor (each at 11, no leftovers anywhere). I've tried playing with it a bit, but the variations usually end up with leftovers and the ups and downs of a point really don't matter much yet. Sometimes I'll throw in some Tactics points (so each of the first three is at 10, Tactics at 8 or 9, I think).

In my builds, Divine Boon ends up being rather pointless. The -2 energy is kind of annoying, and it takes up a skill slot that's better used for something else. You could maybe replace Aegis and Watchful Spirit, with Essence Bond and Divine Boon, if you want. You should get a lot of energy payback that way, but little room left for other things.

1. Life Bond
2. Watchful Spirit
3. Blessed Signet
4. Orison of Healing
5. Vigorous Spirit / Mend Ailment / Any protection or healing preferred (a cheapy)
6. Aegis
7. Balthazar's Spirit
8. Resurrect

This seems to work well, especially coupled with another full-time healer. It's an all-arounder. You can get rid of Watchful Spirit and replace the spot and slide them over leftward and add another heal or protection, if you want. The key is energy gain through Life Bond (on whomever, usually tanks first) + Balthazar's Spirit (on you). I will bond a tank or other primary target first, after I use Balth's on self. I may use Watchful on myself or another I consider a heavy damage-taker. It's nice, because it heals when it is removed (and quite well, too). So you can throw it on then remove it right away, if you have the energy, for some quality spike healing. Vigorous Spirit or the other options depend on situation. Usually, Vigorous is there, and I throw it on a tank going into battle. Lasts 30 seconds, so you can let them take care of themselves, if they attack fast enough. Throw on Aegis often, if available. Don't worry about rezzing until battles are over, if at all possible. I prefer Resurrect, because it is generally quicker, doesn't drop your energy (and then enchantments) like Rebirth, and works at a distance, so you can use it while enemies still linger a little longer in the area. Rez and run!

Sometimes I'll get rid of Watchful Spirit, boost Tactics, and throw in "Watch yourself!" which is a 4 adrenaline warrior stance, adding armor. You'd be surprised how quickly that comes up if you and your bonded get hit often. I'm not sure if the armor bonus stacks when it comes up before the other one's duration is up, but it can provide a constant +20 to all your party's armor. It's saved the day a few times.

I've not had time to try a lot else, but this is my standard line-up and operation. Until I become more pro, like these others.

Maxiemonster · May 24, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Reasons to run boon prot:
- 1 condition removed every 2 seconds (Healing build have none, unless running Mend Condition strictly for condition removal, which is a waste)
- 1 Hex removed every 12 or 20 seconds (Healing build have none, unless running Holy Veil/Inspired Hex strictly for Hex removal, which is a waste).
- Quick casting times (1/4 second, 3/4 second and 1 second only)
- Quick recharge time, mostly 2 seconds (with the exception of CoP, Holy Veil/Inspired Hex and Energy management)

And Brain Box, you can switch between proffesions on a signgle character, so that's quite possible on one Monk. Oh, and your build doesn't look all that solid to me.. Sorry, but I doubt it'll work that effectivly.

And Lurid, seems like a nice pair of builds

I would switch Mend Ailment for Mend Condition in the first one. I've also been running Protective Spirit lately.. Damn those Elementalist bosses are strong! You should also get a Divine Favor Scalp, instead of a Protection Prayers one

Effigy · May 24, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

The way I understand it, the main benefit of the boon prot is fast casting heals that are better at combatting spike damage than the standard 1sec Healing Prayers spells. Since you won't really be getting spiked that much in PvE, a pure healer will be more efficient than a boon prot because you have an extra pip of energy regen, your heals cost 5e instead of 7e, and you can use things like WoH for highly efficient healing in tight situations. Boon prot might be removing more conditions, but most aren't that critical and can be spot removed if necessary. A boon prot doesn't really have any advantage that I can see in terms of hex removal, since they would be using the same spells.

OrangeArrow · May 24, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Well depends on a lot of factors
What area are you in?
Do the enemies cause a lot of conditions and hexes?
Whats the number of other monks/rits in the group and what kind of builds are they running ?
Is anyone running condition removal?
Are there any enchantment removal enemies around?

My general build for pve though is to go Mo/Me healer with inspired and revealed hex. A healer is just more energy efficent, can heal more people, and heal longer than a boon prot PvEwise.

A boon prot build though is incredibly versatile and powerful but it does have weaknesses even with energy mangement Boon prots arent good at fighting long battles where they need to heal multiple allies. The boon prot is also very weak in an area where enchantments get removed pretty often. The main strengths of a boon prot of being a self survial build arent really needed in pve if the player plays smart. Casting speed isnt as important as it is in PvP where you run into coordinated damage much more often.

In short if no one is running condition removal roll as a boon prot if you got condition removal adequetly covered bring a Healer with some hex removal/energy mangement.

sno · May 24, 2006, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Another great thing about PvE is that you'll almost always be fighting 8v8. A plus for boon prot's is that they're self-sufficient, and can do anything you need a monk to do, although only for a few people. With 2 monks providing for 8 people, it's more efficient to run 1 healer and 1 prot, since theres no danger of having to split.

Havelock · May 24, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effigy

Since you won't really be getting spiked that much in PvE

Who says so? With Factions I pretty often see Teammates spiked by the AI (multiple Assassins anyone?) in PvE. And apart from Assassin spikes the AI seems to be more coordinated in attacking a single target to take it out than it was before.

The reason I play Boon Prot in PvE at the moment is that I just started a new Factions Monk and have not yet found / captured the skills I use for my Prophecies Healing Monk.

Havelock

Beat_Go_Stick · May 24, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

- 1 Hex removed every 12 or 20 seconds (Healing build have none, unless running Holy Veil/Inspired Hex strictly for Hex removal, which is a waste).

Nothing wrong with those spells regardless of whether you are heal or prot.

- Quick recharge time, mostly 2 seconds (with the exception of CoP, Holy Veil/Inspired Hex and Energy management)

I've never really had a problem with the recharge on Healing spells........thanks to their increased casting times *chuckle* Just alternate spells and you can always cast a heal...

And Brain Box, you can switch between proffesions on a signgle character, so that's quite possible on one Monk. Oh, and your build doesn't look all that solid to me.. Sorry, but I doubt it'll work that effectivly.

Then help him

Brain Box,
Replace Watchful Spirit with Life Barrier[E] (if you don't have it, find it and cap it

)
Replace Orison with Reversal of Fortune
make #5 Mend Ailment in a bad group or Mend Condition in a good group
Replace Aegis with Guardian
Replace Resurrect with Rebirth

1. Life Bond
2. Life Barrier [E]
3. Blessed Signet
4. Reversal of Fortune
5. Mend Ailment/Condition
6. Protective Spirit
7. Balthazar's Spirit
8. Rebirth

Honestly, I've been a Boon Prot fanatic since I first got Divine Boon (like day 2 after release or so). The reason really is the speed of it. A one second heal just doesn't compare to a 1/4 second Reversal of Fortune that ends up healing for MORE than the one second heal. I kept waiting and waiting and waiting for the Divine Boon nerf to come but it never did.

PvE is very forgiving so either spec will work......but I've always found it best to have 1 Healing Monk and 1 Protection Monk in a group of 8. Reduce and heal

deluxe · May 24, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

i use my regular gvg e-drain boonprot in pve with tiny adjustments.

pvp: rof, mend, infuse, prot spirit, e-drain, drain enchant, inspired hex, boon. (depending on the gvg build you play offcourse, atm build with wards

)

pve: rof, mend, guardian, prot spirit, e-drain, drain enchant/soc, inspired hex, revealed hex, boon.

Lurid · May 24, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

And Lurid, seems like a nice pair of builds

I would switch Mend Ailment for Mend Condition in the first one. I've also been running Protective Spirit lately.. Damn those Elementalist bosses are strong! You should also get a Divine Favor Scalp, instead of a Protection Prayers one

Thanks, i'll try Condition instead of Ailment. Indeed they are, not mention those annoying spikes, saves the other monk alot of headache. I'm workin on the Divine Favor Scalp / Rune, though I hate to do so right now. I'm about 75% of the way to the Kurzick areas, and my sexy 1.5k Kurzick ^_^

Oh yeah, in my healer build I use the hex removal of more energy management, usually. It usually works well, if only the team would call out their conditions / hexes more often....

Robin_Anadri · May 25, 2006, 12:04 AM // 00:04

I'm not in front of my GW computer, so this may be a little off. But what I run 95% of the time in PvE is this:

Protection Prayers 15 = 12 + 1 + 2
Divine Favor 13 = 12 + 1

1. Reversal of Fortune
2. Guardian
3. Mend Ailment / Mend Condition (usually the faster recharge MC)
4. Remove Hex
5. Protective Spirit
6. Divine Boon
7. Peace & Harmony {E}
8. Rebirth

Armor: Censor's Chest, Ascetic's for the rest
Weapon: Kephet's Refuge

My energy management comes from P&H (Bringing me back up to 4 pips of regen, getting Divine Boon for "free") and by intelligent use of the skills. This build is not for twitch healing. If you're used to fanatically spamming heals to keep people topped up, you'll burn through your energy too quickly, the point of this build is getting over a 100 heal from DF & boon for the cost of a cheap spell, with the added benefit of preventing the next attack (RoF) or making the enemy miss (Guardian), mending a condition or removing a hex. I use Protective Spirit when my tank is in trouble, or if the enemy decides to try to play "gank the monk." (I had fun the other day, the Triple Chop boss decided to stay on me while I laughed at him and my team mates cut him down - Prot Spirit + Guardian = laugh at warriors.) As an added bonus, the 84 second base duration of P&H with the 20% enchantment bonus on Kephet's Refuge means that I can keep it on me AND the other monk in the party full time.

Katari · May 25, 2006, 12:09 AM // 00:09

P&H is one of the worst energy managment elites around. Also, there is no compelling reason to have a higher prot than divine on a boon-prot monk.

Robin_Anadri · May 25, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

P&H is one of the worst energy managment elites around. Also, there is no compelling reason to have a higher prot than divine on a boon-prot monk.

An extra pip of regen for two monks in the party is nothing to sneeze it. Plus I said it came from P&H *and* intelligent use of the skills. You wanna be a twitch healer, don't go boon/prot. That's where all the blather about "overhealing" comes from. If you're overhealing, you're not doing it right.

sno · May 25, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

P&H is one of the worst energy managment elites around. Also, there is no compelling reason to have a higher prot than divine on a boon-prot monk.

Agreed, unless it's used on each of a 3 monk backline it's completely terrible. Even then, it's not great, as there are much better elite alternatives.